Debate Topic: Gaza, Palestine, Israel
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Let's debate Gaza, Palestine and Israel's handling of a powder keg of a situation. There has perhaps never been a more debated topic than the Palestinian/Israeli land claim issue. I would venture to say that only God has been debated more often than this topic.
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Let's debate Gaza, Palestine and Israel's handling of a powder keg of a situation. There has perhaps never been a more debated topic than the Palestinian/Israeli land claim issue. I would venture to say that only God has been debated more often than this topic.- Who is to blame for the latest conflict? Hamas for firing missiles or Israel for reacting to it with its full military might? Or is it Hamas' fault, because of its failure to accept Israel as a state, thereby blocking any chance for sincere long-term accord.
- Do you believe Israel has not given Palestinians enough freedom in the first place, for instance with regard to the use of its ports. Is Gaza a free state or a prison camp?
- Is Hamas a terrorist group, or does it represent the Palestinian people, especially those in Gaza?
- Is Israel simply testing Hamas' capabilities, like it may have with Hezbollah, before engaging in a multi-front conflict with greater enemy Iran?
- How might Israel and Palestine find reasonable and sustainable solution? What do you suggest is the solution that is digestible by all? This is the question of the century.
See TOPIC OF DEBATE ARCHIVE
Please see our disclosures at the Wall Street Greek website and author bio pages found there. Article interests: NYSE: GAF, Nasdaq: GULF, Nasdaq: TRIAX, Nasdaq: TRAMX, NYSE: EIS, Nasdaq: XISLX, AMEX: DIA, AMEX: SPY, Nasdaq: QQQQ, NYSE: NYX, AMEX: DOG, AMEX: SDS, AMEX: QLD, AMEX: XLF, AMEX: IWM, AMEX: TWM, AMEX: IWD, AMEX: SDK.
Labels: Debate Topics
posted by The Greek | 12:16 PM
20 Comments:
I am registering my opinion, not debating. I have been studying this topic for five years and when you find out what it really happening in Israel, it is more than clear that it is Israel's fault. The problem in the US is that our media is Israel-centric so the news and debate has been stifled for years. The public does not understand what is happening there and cannot form a coherent picture. This debate must be aired and I appreciate your providing this platform.
I am sensing a different sort of reaction from the world this time around, overwhelmingly negative. My feeling is that from the streets to the capital buildings of nations, there's a frustration that will drive more drastic action than in the past, and I feel also that sentiment is more favorable for Palestinians than ever before.
The world is getting tired of war generals saying, "our war is not against the people of... but the government of ..." We said our war was not against Iraq, but against Saddam and the Baath Party. It was true, but Iraqis didn't believe it for as long as we stuck around to ensure a favorable government developed in its place.
Now Israel is saying the same about Palestine and Hamas. Palestinians are dying though, because every Hamas member is a Palestinian, and next to every Hamas office is a Palestinian home. President Bush has been talking about Iran and the regime there, trying to inspire support from the ground in Iran, a poor country.
Let's face it, this is a war strategy to turn a civilization against its elected government. Al Qaeda even effectively worked this strategy against Spain through the train bombing there.
Hamas won an election and sits as elected power, chosen by its people. Israel strongly objected, and the Palestinian Authority ended up in civil war, so that it now controls the West Bank while Hamas controls Gaza, and Hamas is now called a power by coup.
Let's be sincere. When we engage a nation because of the decisions of its leaders, we engage the country. The ramifications of "engagement" are a united enemy where there might have been internal corrosion otherwise. This propaganda never works. Fighting a people unites them, no matter what you say or who you argue you are fighting against. In this case, it is uniting the entirety of Islam. I'm very worried this time. Also, Russia seems to be near giving "security" assurances, changing the game altogether.
I sense a growing angry with Israel, despite the missiles and defensive aspect of this conflict. I think Israel might have better handled the situation by first threatening very publicly (much more than it did) that engagement was a growing possibility. The world needed to hear Israel's plight before seeing its bombs land.
World sentiment is obviously increasingly important, and so I feel Israel did a terrible job of winning any support. It may be that any nation would defend itself from rocket fire, but the world did not notice that rocket fire, just Israeli bombs. That's a failure of PR.
The long-term solution requires Hamas changing its policies, or being ousted by its populace. Israel was doing a decent job of forcing that by making life tough on Gazans, but that again was also perceived as undo torture, and maybe it was. On one hand you cannot blame Israel, and on the other, you feel for the Palestinians.
Someone needs to stand up and open the eyes of men to see that they must choose to live in peace. Efforts must be made for peace, instead of for aggression. I realize these are ideologic words that find little opportunity to thrive in the reality of harsh conditions and deep wounds, but that's exactly where they must survive, or peace will never bloom. There is no easy answer here. Men must come to bargaining tables with sincere open hearts and arms.
The level of frustration is much too high, and war is all to easy a step from here. Keep peace alive instead. I suspect Obama has not spoken yet because of concern the Israelis might view him less an ally than past presidents, and concern that Israel might then engage Iran before January 20. If so, his choice is the wise one. I have a candle lit for Obama, because otherwise, I see no hope to avoid significant conflict on many fronts involving many nations.
Let me ask this another way. If a group of terrorist were firing off rockets from Toronto into the city of Buffalo, do you think the U.S. would try and negotiate with these terrorist first? And then keep negotiating with these very same terrorists for the next 20 years? Israel has every right to defend herself. Hamas, the PLO, Fatah, Palestine are all foolish to think this will go without consequence. What did they expect? If you want to argue the initial problem of relocating all the displaced Jews after WWII by Britain, France and the U.S. into a desert area in Palestine, then this is another question. But to ask whether or not Israel has a right to defend itself is like asking is Risky Bankers should make billions in the good years, but then should be bailed out by the Treasury and Federal Reserve when they realized they f'd up, if homeowners who never should have bought homes should be protected from the evil Bankers who forced them to take on these burdensome mortgages. What is wrong with everyone these days? What happened to America? What happened to the Conservative ideals we once held?
Disgusting. Go Israel! At least someone stays true to their principles.
In my experience, it is almost impossible for Jews to have a rational opinion on this topic. For one thing, they have been hearing propaganda their whole lives, about how they are victims of the gentiles, so they would have to clear their mind in order to see the truth about Israel. This is a big problem here in the US as we have many government officials that are Jews, and of course, many of the "power elite". The analogy of Mexico lobbing bombs at Dallas is specious, a more accurate analogy would be if our goverment had invaded black ghettos in the sixties in order to straighten out the rioters, invaded with tanks. The Palestinians had a country before the Jews moved in and now they don't. They have been pushed and intimidated into this enclosed ghetto of Gaza. Now the Israelis are killing them haphazardly. In order to obtain real news of events there it is necessary to read foreign press. Our press is completely biassed or intimidated to speak the truth.
The Greek is also sadly uninformed. The Israelis have been brilliant at pretending to want peace and somehow always finding an excuse not to make peace. There are many many examples , but I cannot carry on a colloquium at the forum.
The best way to inform the "uninformed" is to inform, rather than to point out how wiser or smarter one is. This common mistake takes the argument away from its fundamentals.
The fact is that the wisest of men are often trampled to death by rioting fools.
This latest comment offered as much biased opinion as the writer notes exists in Jewish community. Of course Jews will be biased toward Israel! Of course Arabs will be biased towards the Palestinians!
The Jews have, however, been victims in the past, an undeniable truth. I can't see how anyone could call that "propaganda". I would have to agree with you that our populace in the U.S. is biased and under-informed, which may be more the fault of closed-minded or uninformed media than biased media (or you're right).
But we have minds, and we have foreign press that we read now, thanks to the Internet and satellite television.
This blog is read by some decision makers and others of note, so your words are wasted by anticipating the readers are your typical sort. Instead, you have your forum to present perhaps valuable idea, FINALLY! Don't expect defeat before the game has begun.
How can we solve this issue. It's clear new ideas are needed. What say you!?
I actually referenced Toronto lobbing rockets at Buffalo....but lets take this out of the U.S. What if there was a region in southern England, where a bunch of anti-French "uninformed rebels" were launching rockets into northern France. After say, 10-20 years of the British Government explaining to the people of France that they really were trying "their best" to reign in this extremist anti-French group in Southern England, but they just need to give them more time, maybe another year or so of bombing (please just trust us...). Do you really think the French, as peace-loving as they are, would not take more aggressive measures after 20 years of nonsense, and just bring in a brigade or two and flatten the region causing the violence?
I still am not sure why the world is even questioning Israel's legal right to protect its people. Where was all this debate 6 months ago when the Israeli's were dieing?
Full Disclosure, I am not Jewish, or of any Jewish descent, but actually an Irish-German Protestant.
Go Israel, protect the motherland.
@uncle
Yes you would retaliate, but would you still do that if for 2 years, you have blockaded everything moving in and out of toronto, including fuel, food and people. Israel had breached boundaries again and again all the way from 1948, It had to talk to PLO, and it messed it up after PLO gave up arms and became democratic, it supressed it, and so was born Hamas.
I am away from the conflict, but surely if a neighbour romped into my lawns, and then cut off my access to the street, so that i can move in or out of my house, next cut off my power and heating connections, and stopped me from going out shopping for food, if he did not allow me to get money from the ATM and buy stuff for my household, I would rather fight it out with him, I m dying anyways of hunger and the blockade and the cold.
I m not against Israel, just this that they need to learn to be satisfied with what they have, and not jet out for more territory, stop treating others as fodder. They are living people, and for god's sake let them live.
My opinion -
There is no way you could confront ur neighbour for forever - Israel is only creating more suicide bombers, not just in Gaza, but everywhere in the Muslim world. They need to talk, and as the mighty give away concessions, live peacefully, and stop the blockades at will.
It is just wasting time to debate about Gaza, Palestine and Israel because Israel insist to keep exist in the world map and Hamas insist to wipe out Israel from the world's map.
everyone mentions the missiles that Hamas launch to Israel, and of course this is very bad, but know one goes deeper and try to explain why. Imagine that tomorrow you are forced to leave your house, your belongings because the ONU decided that they are going to give it the the descendants of the Indians who lived there before you. Palestins
lost all, 30% of the current population are refugees or son refugees. They lost all, all they have is there pride to fight the people responsible for there situation. Also, i see always peace talks, but what all the world leaders should be talking is that in Gaza Israel controls the air space ass well as the ports, Israel need to back off and let the Palestine form there states just like the did. To this day Israel has not given any sort of compensation to the Palestine refugees, in ma opinion Israel should be taken to the International courts and be forced to pay them.
Question:
Should the Canadian government lay seige to Quebec for electing members of the Block party? Deny them food, water, medicine, murder the block party members, and their families, deny foreign media access, and tell the world they are not against Quebecers but are against the 'Block'?
Touche'
Maybe if the Block Party members were firing missiles into Buffalo and declaring all of Buffaloians must die, maybe Canada wouldn't do it, but the US would.
The reason this problem has not been solved for so long is because there are valid arguments on both sides. It will take unselfish acknowledgement of that fact from both parties, and concessions from both parties (this is already understood I think, but perhaps not enough has happened) for peace. Maybe it will take men to be saints for it, and maybe that is asking too much of most men who would prefer to toil in war on earth throughout their lives and burn for eternity in hell as well.
I want to be down on record saying this. There is no excuse that can be made for Israel's bombing of a UN school in Gaza, when after being given the coordinates of all such locations well ahead of time, it still bombed too close. I don't care if rockets were being fired from across the street. Also, once again, the PR campaign out of Israel sounds horribly flawed and as inhumane as the claims being made against the Palestinians use of human shields. THIS WAS NOT JUST A SCHOOL, WHICH WOULD BE BAD ENOUGH, BUT IT WAS UN TERRITORY BASICALLY. There were people there from all over the world, seeking refuge. If I were a Holocaust survivor, I couldn't make sense of this, NO WAY NO HOW.
Israel is the ocupier and what is going on now is not a war it is a humanitarian crime .Hamas is representing the palastinens defending their people and their stolen land what going on now is that Isreal is aiming to wipe out the palastinens from earth by targeting women and children 765 Palestinians murdered by Israel in Gaza (more than 230 children & 100 women) & 3100 injured till today. This is not a nation defending itself it is extreme terrorism to target civilians and they have won increasing hate in the hearts of people worldwide please see facebook which is reflecting the true openions of the people not the press which is hiding the truth .What Israel is doing will turn upon them sooner or later they will never feel safe in this world and they will be in endless hell in the hearafter unless they are forgived. The people of Gaza who left this world are the real winners in this war by getting an endless paradise. They now hope to return to this world to be killed again for the great honor they obtained for their death defending their land. Palastinens will never be wiped out and the day will come when muslims will refenge for their killed people and Palastine will be free.
daaamnnnn I’m sooo sorry but the Israelis can´t just stay and do nothing!! They have to protect themselves... you just see this from one side of the coin and that’s not right!
Palestinians and Muslims are millions of people more than the Israelis, despite this; the Israelis are still those who struggle for peace and to protect his brothers and people from his people and blood, because the Palestinians are fighting to kill, for war and power. For them, no one is his brothers.... if you really want something good for them, you had stopped fighting long ago, because while more fighting, more die people you will have.
PEACE PLEASE PLEASE!!! All this shit is affecting the whole world...... and we just want PEACE is it too hard?
I recently remembered the Palestinian rocket that struck a school in Israel. Might this explain why hi-tech Israeli targeting mechanisms and well-informed commanders still managed to "accidentally" hit a well lit up GPS no-bomb zone, a.k.a. the UN school?
Here is the conditions of war in Islam which our prophit may peace be upon him instructed us to do 1400 years ago and this should be the ethics of war in the world as the more people are civilized the more advanced technology and power they have they more ethics and they should have:
Hadith’s about the law of War and Peace in Islam:(Hadith is what our profit said)
“There is no compulsion in religion…”
Muslims were prohibited from taking anything from the general public of a conquered country without paying for it. When the Muslim army occupied an area of the enemy country, it did not have the right to use things belonging to the people without consent.
“The Prophet has prohibited the believers from looting and plunder” (Bukhari)
“Do not destroy villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.”
“Do not kill any old person, any child or any women” (AbuDawud)
About you saying about the bombing of UN schools, plus the hospitals and such. Ever wondered why they would assault a civillian building that poses no threat? Israelis aren't a bunch of bloodthirsty demons but if you are inclined to believe it then fine. Remember how these muslim terrorists love fighting? Remember what US soldiers faced in Afghanistan and Iraq? Civillian shields,thats what. If you have to choose between your own life and those of others i assume your own will win out in the end. Imagine muzzle flashes coming from around a school or hospital and bullets zipping pass your head and maybe you'll get a picture of why they are attacking a civillian building.
But if you're wondering, I support neither side. 1000 lives is too much but the Israelis had a reason because their people were dying too. I'm relieved it finally reached a ceasefire.
I agree with the following comment:
" Anonymous said...
I am registering my opinion, not debating. I have been studying this topic for five years and when you find out what it really happening in Israel, it is more than clear that it is Israel's fault. The problem in the US is that our media is Israel-centric so the news and debate has been stifled for years. The public does not understand what is happening there and cannot form a coherent picture. This debate must be aired and I appreciate your providing this platform."
I am deeply saddened by the amount of ignorance the American people have when it comes to the Palestine-Israel conflict. The amount of biased, pro-Israeli media that is shoved into the faces of Americans is ridiculous. Even Israeli citizens themselves are unable to see the devastation their military and government have caused to the Palestinian people. Zionists and others supporting Israel continue to say "Israel has the right to defend itself." But, they never think to answer the question of why it needs to defend itself. They need to look at the conflict from before 20 years ago. And they need to provide concrete evidence of who was living in Palestine and what occurred when the British allowed the Jews to live in Palestine. Were they grateful for finally having a place to live? No. They decided to build up their own military and attack the Palestinian people that had been living peacefully with them. And now living in 80 percent of the land that was originally Palestinian, they continue to build illegal settlements. They have an established nation and 80 percent of stolen land and they continue to slowly but surely force the Palestinian people out. They continue to leave Palestinian children thirsty and hungry with little access to food and water. Not only is this action inhumane, it is ILLEGAL according the United Nations laws. It is ILLEGAL to build a wall around what's left of Palestine. I don't see any rational arguments being made by those who support Israel. I, and many others supporting Palestine have nothing against Jews or even those who consider themselves Israeli, I am angry with the Israeli government that continues to grow more and more corrupt with the United States proudly sending them billions of dollars each year. Billions of dollars used to build bulldozers that destroy houses and olive trees of the poor Palestinian people. There are so many more things to say about this issue.
Israel needs to stop building on the west bank and stop the blockade of Gaza if they want peace. Do you agree or disagree? Have your say at: http://commentwars.org/view?id=61
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